Verse 9

[cthree]

Just to put a spin on things:
"Shell, limestone, silver, salt"

One way to make a good concrete is to burn shells to get limestone, then add more shells.

The first photograph ever taken was created using salt and silver nitrate. These are still the basic chemical ingredients that create photos.

Also, salt and silver nitrate are 2 of the 4 main components in the bronzing process.


Concrete movie theatre?
Concrete bust? (photo, depiction, image of)
Bronze bust?
Bronze movie theatre? lol

[maltedfalcon]

just in case this helps-
The points on a windrose like the points on a compass
N, NE, E, SE, S, SW, W, NW.

are labeled also but it depends on the lanquage you use.

Italian, (most common usage- from north, clockwise)
T, G, L, S, O, A, P, M
for
Tramontana, Greco, Levante, Syroco, Ostro, Africus, Ponente, Maestro

Latin, (alternate names in parenthesis)
Aquilo, Wutrurus, Agestes, Phoenix (euronotos), Austerus, Africus(Vulturnus), Faviounus, Circius

or Greek
Boreas, Caecias (Thracias), Eurus, (burus), Apeliotes, Notus, Libs(lips), Zephyrus, Corus (skirion, Aparctias)


I think its interesting how many of the wind names are words we are familiar with but had no idea where the word came from

[fox]

rereading the posts in this V and noticed many of the posts re: the wind rose (most of them by me  :-/ ) were that of the common compass rose.

as Falcon explained above.....here is a site that may be a little more helpful than others I've posted lol

http://web.uflib.ufl.edu/cm/africana/windrose.htm

...and a good history on the windrose can be found here:
http://www.antiquemaps.co.uk/chapter10.html

[SeekTheRabbitHole]

ok now i have only been looking into this since i read about Egbert's find (congrats by the way) and it may sound ignorant but i believe that verse 9 goes with image 6.

i think this mainly because it says "the first chapter written in water near men"  now in the image there is a water mass in the back ground and a man on a horse standing on top of a rock. then you have "behind the bending branches and a green picket fence at the base of a tall tree" now in the image there is flowers of some sort at the base of the rock and since it is by a mass the flowers would bend and the flowers could reprecent a green picket fence that bends in the wind and the rock at it seems to be could be sort of like a tall tree.

that is all i got like i said it may sound ignorant but i have a strong feeling that i am right. does anyone else have a feeling about this.

[fox]

Anything is possible until the casque is found Rabbit.  Keep the ideas flowing and welcome to the hunt.

[cthree]

Yes it seems that anything IS possible....Welcome and good idea! It seems that any direct coorelations between verse and picture have been red herrings but you never know.

[SeekTheRabbitHole]

there maybe more linking Image 6 to Verse 9 the man sitting on his horse ontop of the rock he is wearing French style armor maybe meaning somthing related to Christopher Collumbus. Now a common missconception is were he landed he first landed in Cuba which is close to Florida and the French occupide Florida for a long time.

also in Verse 9 it says "Years pass, rain falls". Now Florida has the highest rainfall in the country this might be realted to that. Also "Shell, limestone, silver, salt" all can be found in Florida and the rock that the French man is standing on could be made of limestone.

lastly the clouds in the background in Image 6 are storm clouds relating to the whole "years pass, rain fall" part which points even more twoard Florida.

so basically the French man, the clouds, and the shell limestone silver salt all could point to Florida.

[fox]

i think this mainly because it says "the first chapter written in water near men"  now in the image there is a water mass in the back ground and a man on a horse standing on top of a rock.

Now, if you continue on with the flow of the V,  it would state:  "near men with wind rose".  This too, could be referring to Columbus and his men as Rabbit talked of in later entry.  Men with wind rose would definitely be sailors of yesteryear.

It may be a stretch but.... could the symbol on our conquistador's flag be that of a wind rose?...or that of just a simple "rose" flapping on the banner in the "wind"?

[stercox]

St Augustine Florida  Fountain of Youth Archeological Park
P6 + V9

The first chapter
This appears on the left hand page of the "book" sign on their front gate

Written in water
refers to The Fountain of Youth history

Near men
With wind rose
A little tougher--There are two statues on the property one of the Timucuan Chief and one of Ponce de Leon.  There is a Goose/Duck pond that splits them (on the park's yellow site map, the duck pond looks like a wind rose).   In real life, it might be a stretch.  There is also a wind rose exhibit there near a Spanish ship model with miniature Spaniards on it.  There is tile near the Spring House that is a wind rose pattern and inside life size models of the indians and Ponce.

Behind bending branches
And a green picket fence
The branches may refer to the archway of trees just outside the park entrance or may refer to  trees further back in the property near the Ponce statue heading back toward the monument (which is monolithic in shape).  There has been a fence near monument off and on through the years, as it often get blown out to see.  On the archeological site map the fence is depicted running east-west, most of the time the fence run arond that backside curve of the monument.  There is also a wooden fence near the entrance to the park that has been there longstanding and "has always been green" to some of the employee's recollections.

At the base of a tall tree
Here is the kicker--There are many tall palms, locating the right palm is (to me) the remaining mystery.  I think that the final clue to this is how the rock and the tree line up in the bottom of P6.  The rock is in the water (and reflected there) the tree is not reflected and indicates that it is some distance behind the rock.  There is an angled line between the rock and tree (you will need an original book picture to see this + a mag lense, but it is there).  I do not think that its a random mark, but tells where to dig if the alignment is right.  Unfornately, they dredge the coastline every 12 years and dump anything heavy along it (parts of walls, bricks, rocks etc) to help prevent erosion.  It is the only area of the park with significant water and I think the clues lead us out to that area beyond the monument.  22 years later--its gone.

[stercox]

You can still hear the honking
There is a duck/goose pond at the park.  The reference to "you can still..."  seems to indicate some distance from the pond.  Again, I think this puts it out near the coastline.

Shell, limestone, silver, salt
There are exhibit markers.  One talks about how shell & limestone are fixed together to create "Coquina"  which is what much of the buildings and monuments in St Augustine are made from.  One exhibit is a Silver salt cellar, actually found near Ponce de Leon's marker near the Fountain of Youth.  It is displayed in the Spring house.   However the sign has recently been taken down,  I supplied a sign on line for this.  

Stars move by day
Sails pass by night
There is a planetarium at the park. They run a celestrial navigation program inside that simulates you being on a Spanish ship at night and how Ponce would have used the stars to navigate his way to the new world.

Even in darkness
Like moonlight in teardrops
This line is a mystery to me.  He may be referring to all the small white lights that light up St Augustine at night, or the bridge lights that can be seen from the end of the park over the marshy coastland.  Or it may be a simile for moonlight (big white shiny rock) in teardrops (salty water=ocean), like that depicted in P6, the final part of the clue.

Over the tall grass
Years pass, rain falls.
At the coast line is a heavy protected marshland, there is nothing there but tall grass, much like that depicted in the flowers in P6.  Nothing is changing out in this area or has changed for years.

Pictures attached [img]URL[/img]http://community.webshots.com/user/stercox

[stercox]

I think that the verse leads you down to the east part of the park near the water's edge,  the flag acts as a map following the old retaining wall around the outside of the monument to a place where you would be able to see the rock in the water seen in P6.  When you align the rock and the tree, there is an angled line down from the tree that would indicate where to dig (you need an original book to see this).  So much of this area has changed over 20 years.  Every 12 years they dredge the marsh area shoving up debris and dumping in bricks, stone, and other junk to help prevent erosion.  The old retaining wall has fallen off into the sea due to erosion.  If I'm right about the rock/tree alignment then the rock is gone.  There a lot of tall palms in the park, at least a dozen down in that end.  But which one.  Many have been lost to hurricanes.  The real disappointment of the trip was that even if everything looked perfect--They will NOT let you dig there EVER.   If I'm right about this place--I fear that the casque is not recoverable.   All the employees there were very helpful and I am still corresponding with them to see if we can dig up any information or old pictures of this area from the early 1980s.  I have alot of pictures of the area that I am still going over.  There is a lot of vague imagery in the big black rock that doesn't fit anything.  What do you all think???

[wilhouse]

I think your in the right place.

Perhaps if you can get some photos and prove it is not there any more  you can email them to Preiss and see if he will relent and at least tell you if you are correct.
wilhouse

[catherwood]

just a quick google search led me here:
http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/histarch/menendez_02.htm
the caption "Fountain of Youth excavations during Spring 2000" make my heart sink.  Good Luck.

[wilhouse]

I honestly don't believe Preiss would bury the casque in this kind of park.  There must be some where on the outskirts, in a more out of the way area, that fits...

wilhouse

[Jambone]

Stercox, excellent work!  You are in the right area.  I have just a couple of thoughts to share:

The symbol on the flag (see your album, photo 4) is an overhead view of the monument (see photo 5, upper left-hand corner).

I think the "green picket fence" is the one in the background of photo 6.  I'm guessing the fence near the park entrance is too high for a traditional "picket fence"?

Hopefully the casque is still there and undisturbed.  Good luck!