Verse 9

[stercox]

haven't figured out why he is depicted on a horse,
unless it is part of the mythical global puzzle...

It never bothered me.  There are a lot of things in the images from Cleveland and Chicago that were in there as part of artistic composition only and really didn't contribute to finding it.  I did think that the horse elevated  Ponce (as he appears that way in his statue).  The bigger question is---How important is it in this hunt to consider the direction Ponce is looking?  He is facing North or left in P6 using the flag and pole visual match up with the park's pathways as a directional.  What I find more interesting in P6,  is he is looking down--down into a deep hole.   Does it mean anything?  Just soley based on this part of the picture, one could make an argument to dig around North or left of the Ponce statue (but I never felt that this uses all the clues available in the verse or even within the P6).  Maybe it means, when we find the right tree, we should dig North or left (after all "at the base of a tree" is really a 360 degree dig).  Maybe its all about artistic composition afterall??

[stercox]

...fence shown on the Archaeological Site Map and I’m obviously hoping this fence was green.  This fence stretched roughly east-west, just south of the low enclosure, and some trees and bushes are evident in the overhead view.

Pine--

I remember asking about that very fence with one of the staff old timers--I thought he told me that it never ran that direction that he knew of,  although it is on the archeological site map that way.  I also found out that they have had many fences out there and they keep getting blown out to sea during hurricanes.  Maybe Sawdusty can verify the fence seen on the archeological map for us.

My original thoughts were much more in line with yours--meaning, its out near the coastline--but then two things drug me back toward the west side of the park--the wind rose find and the goose pen.  It seemed to me that most of the verse clues kept taking me back to the main park area.  Good thing is--if we play our cards right--we should be able to check out most theories, east park or west park.

[stercox]

Near men ---->  could be referring to the two statues at this part o the park
                    (Ponde and the Chief)

With wind rose --->  (besides the obvious reference to the explorers)
                          I think I read/saw someone post that the duck/goose pond is
                          in this shape.

This would absolutely narrow the searching area, if true.

A couple years ago, when researching what was available to look at on-line, I thought the same thing.  But when we got there I did not feel that the duck pond looked at all like a wind rose.  It does appear to be like one on the park's yellow map they sent me, but in reality the duck pond has only three squiggly arms radiating from the center, not 4, to represent the cardinal directional positions (it may be difficult to see that from the pictures).  It would have to be a Salvador Dali interpretation to really meet the elements for a wind rose.  And when I found the "wind rose"  the statues became less of a factor for me.  I still believe, and its my humble opinion, that using the constructs given to find the previous casques (that is, the picture gets you to the park, the verse gets you to the casque site, and verse tells you where to dig with a visual confirmer from the picture [the wall pictured for Cleveland, the fence and fixture pictured for Chicago]) that at the very least, we should be looking in the west part of the park.  Nearly all the verse identifiers are in this part of the park--but what is the final visual confirmer?  The tree?  The rock--tree--water combo??  Surely others could be right---the obelisk symbol and the Ponce statue make a very convincing final visual confirmer for another area of the park but the verse clues lose their punch for these areas.  I guess the good thing is all are in play and that together we should decide clearly on our hot spots for the next opportunity to dig.

[stercox]

There may be something, something that may be at the base of a tree that
the casque could be buried in.  Can't see BP reducing his hands to bloody stumps
digging under a tree (through roots) to hide a casque.  Unless, the tree doesn't have roots.

Boogie--

This is one of the reasons that I had HOPED for a palm tree--I think that the dig would have been much easier.  And I'll say the same for future digs--but I don't know if isolating ourselves to palm trees is the right thing to do.  There are not much in the way of planters--and certainly nothing permanent (like that found on the backside of the wall in Cleveland).

[forest_blight]

stercox - the reason I asked about the root-ball of a palm tree earlier was because BP would have had just as much trouble digging around an oak as you did. If it is buried at the base of a tall tree, and there are lots of palms around, ceteris paribus it is more likely to be under a palm tree. Also, I would be more inclined to describe a plam as a "tall tree" than an oak or a magnolia, whose width tends to obscure their height.

Not to mention there is a palm tree - with what looks like a line drawn from its trunk the ground beside it - in P6.

[stercox]

#42 of 117..

is that Trohn's stone tablet thingy behind the palm tree in this pic?  if not, what is it?  an oddly shaped white thing next to a palm tree is intriguing.

Fox--

That white object is a garbage dumpster.

[stercox]

If I were putting on a treasure hunt similar to this.... #89 of 117 would, in my mind, be an ideal spot.  Standing at a very prominent spot in the park (PDL statue) and looking away, one sees a lone palm tree.  Things by themselves seem to stand out much more than one of many.

Fox--

I loved that isolated palm myself, even probed around it a bit, just to check it out on my first visit.  I don't think we would be allowed to dig out there though--its in the middle of the archeological dig sites.  BTW the archeologists are there quite often during the warmer months.  When they are there--we will likely be prohibited to dig anywhere in the park.  At least it was that way previously--we'd have to check with the owner.

[forest_blight]

Also, the reason for the flag may be a simple reference to the historical fact that Ponce claimed "La Florida" for Spain in what is now St. Augustine. It is Ponce "planting a flag" for Spain, which nails St. Augustine as the location for the P6 casque.

2¢

[stercox]

stercox - the reason I asked about the root-ball of a palm tree earlier was because BP would have had just as much trouble digging around an oak as you did. If it is buried at the base of a tall tree, and there are lots of palms around, ceteris paribus it is more likely to be under a palm tree. Also, I would be more inclined to describe a plam as a "tall tree" than an oak or a magnolia, whose width tends to obscure their height.  Not to mention there is a palm tree - with what looks like a line drawn from its trunk the ground beside it - in P6.

Yes, I agree.   I have been giving palm trees a lot of thought today and reading through all the posts helped shift my thoughts....a little.  I had subconsciously centered my original theory around the planetarium, falsely thinking that this "centering" was being clue-driven by Near men with windrose.  I like Pine's thoughts about "Near may not mean Near, near".  I do not mean to say that I have given up the idea that it's some where close to the Planetarium--but it may not be as close as I had originally thought.  There are a couple problems that have been nagging at me:  (1) The roots are killer if its any other tree than a palm,  (2) The final visual confirmer just seems like it should be the P6 palm tree, (3) Where do you dig at the base of a tree--without knowing what side to dig on--it becomes a 360 degree dig, (4) The word choice of You can still hear the honking would seem to create an important distinction between seeing the geese and hearing them that I cannot shake.  Some of my original conclusions may still be right.  But how does one get around this problem?

If we take Near to mean in close proximity to the Planetarium as opposed to right next to the planetarium vestibule, then the Near men with windrose becomes a "You're getting warm..." type of clue.

If we center the goose pen and keep the goose pen at our back, we no longer see it but you can hear it.  This perspective will open up many other possible tree locations in the area.  Not only that but keeping the goose pen at our back--it will tell you where along that base of that tree you should dig when you find the right one.  In this view, we're not eliminating trees, but it could be helpful in finding a palm that fits this idea and I have one in mind......

http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2469791660064740493drBoEx?vhost=good-times

This tree always impresses me each time I see it--its tall and straight and reminds me of the P6 tree.  It sits isolated just a short ways behind the planetarium and it would have been behind the goose pen as well as you move south.

[stercox]

One problem is they lost a bunch of other palms in this area during recent hurricanes. 

[Sawdusty]

We were back out at the park today taking some more pictures and had walked out to the area behind the planetarium and Jay said "You know, it really could be back here too!" If you stop and think about it, you could line up the bamboo at the restroom, the green picket fence, the umbrella fountain, the planetarium, and keep going back behind the building. There would have been other trees back there that are now gone and may have given him the cover he needed to be out of sight of the goose pen. It could be the tree!

[Trohn]

Good luck with the finish.

I think we have done just about all
of the observing from the pictures and the
verse connections without being there.

The one thing I would say about the final spot,
I would want to be facing East.

Also, did I see a picket fence behind (south)
of the burial grounds?

[boogieman]

Whew!  Since Stercox first posted after the dig, this thread has almost tripled in length.
And I believe if this were 82' or 83', you would have found it the first time.

I too think all the possibilities have been discussed, so there is no reason to rush.
With Sawdusty's eyes and ears, we'll know if the park is going to change.
Stercox, Pine Tree, and Egbert, let us know when you are going for the final dig
and then we'll see how many more can join you, (quietly).  I don't know if I'll be there or not,
but it would be nice to shake hands with all of you.

(bclews- I'm going to send you some pics of JPJ Park in Brooklyn pretty soon so you
can do your magic. Thanks)

[stercox]

Good luck with the finish.

I think we have done just about all
of the observing from the pictures and the
verse connections without being there.

The one thing I would say about the final spot,
I would want to be facing East.

Also, did I see a picket fence behind (south)
of the burial grounds?

I see the wooden fence you are referring to.  I think that is a fence that separates the park's public spaces from employee only areas that have storage sheds. equipment, etc.  Its painted brown--don't know if it was always that way.  S'dusty can verify this with the owner. 

Why facing East? 

[Trohn]

Facing East.

It appears to be the orientation of the image.