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Re: image 12

Postby maltedfalcon » Fri Jul 25, 2014 4:39 pm

erexere wrote:fox, you raise a fine point about the generic quality of the bird.
.and you may argue that this couldnt posibly be an indian woman floating above the sea.


That's correct, there is nothing about the woman at all that indicates Native American.
The dress is European The face is un-arguably french.
Please point to anything that says "Indian"
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Re: image 12

Postby erexere » Fri Jul 25, 2014 5:13 pm

I'd be happy to, but first let me reread the Vanishing. I think it's worth mentioning the Fair Folk pespective, their peaceful coexistence with the natives and their decision to Secret away their gems and casques as they witnessed the coming colonization of civilized man. I suppose my approach to these puzzles has more and more gravitated to this perspective and the fact that this image portrays a female person regardless of her origin, it may be a Fair Folk's perspective to generalize a woman as a squaw.

They adapted themselves...the field guide shows that...i wonder if the idea behind each location is to show how each site that was chosen long long ago also adapted by their invisible influence. The choice to build the Greek Gardens may have been inspired by the Nymphs presence in Cleveland, ect.
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Re: image 12

Postby Siskel » Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:22 pm

For those interested, a synopsis of my recent trip to New York with James Renner:

Met up with James and his film crew AND Byron's two daughters. Lovely girls and they were THRILLED to be part of the search. Was so interesting to see it through their eyes. Showed them all the Roman Orthodox Church in Brooklyn across from McCarren Park and got some ooohs and ahhs. Went next to Prospect Park, after first stopping at the house where Byron was born (near the park!!). After traveling from one end to the other and ending in Concert Grove (aka Rhapsodic Man's soil) I can confidently say that the treasure is NOT buried there. The girls were excited at the "prospect" (excuse the pun) and felt confident their dad would have buried a casque in the borough of his birth. And there were even some high hopes - like when we were looking at a map in the park and saw a refernce to a small man made island just north of Concert Grove called Musical Bear Island (The Isle of B???). And then when we found a large gazeebo that looked like it might have housed a carousel (cars abound) many years back and, after jumping over the do not enter fences to do a more thorough investigation, we saw not only the same color scheme in the inside roof (pale yellow, maroon and blue) but more amazing, there is a stain glass panel at the very center that even had some small circlular baubles in different spots that sort of resembled the color blind panels, albeit in small doses. After some initial goosebumps, we traversed that Concert Grove area looking for a V and walked 22 steps "or Moore" (towards the bust of composer Moore) in an area near busts of Mozart and Beethoven, both of whom have been referenced in previous prose, hoping we might find a suitable spot for digging. But alas, we all came to the conclusion that there is simply no way that the casque is buried in Prospect Park. And that was after exploring the large arch (grey giant?) adjacent to the Brooklyn Public Library (that was adorned with gold images including an indian and Moby Dick -- Melville, him of Hard Words?). Bottom line is that this entire location seemed like a stretch at best and there was NEVER that "A-Ha" moment that I experienced so clearly in Cleveland when Egbert and I discovered the treasure in the Greek Cultural Gardens 10 years ago.

From there we headed to Downtown Manhattan and explored the Battery Park area. Lots of clues to match up to the prose - the fact that the Fraunces Tavern sign mentions the West Indies native being a block from Mellvile's birth plaque ("A man thinks that by mouthing Hard Words he understands hard things") and standing at the very end of Broadway and looking north up that long "aisle"/isle of B (Broadway) the only structure visible in the distance is CLEARLY the Chrysler building, perfectly framed by the aisle of B itself (that dreaded Eagle gargoyle?) Whirring sounds from the nearby Staten Island Ferry and the nearby helliport, and clear sight lines for both Lady Liberty and Ellis Island (though not the docking area that appears to be referenced outlined in red in the illustration) and also some nice sculptures above the Battery Tunnel that show both the archway for the Verrazano Bridge and (in a separate panel) Peter Minuet buying Manhattan from the Indians (for the glass baubles?) Still, despite some better clues all around, the Battery Park area just did not feel right. Too spread out with no one place that seemed right.

We did NOT get to explore the area at the base of the Verrezano (JPJ Park and Ft. Hamilton) which remains a popular theory for some. We also did not get to visit Roosevelt Island, a theory that I feel is quite valid (formerly Blackwell's Island and if standing at the Southern tip in the park area, you can gaze north to the Isle of B (Blackwell). From there, you can hear the whirring sound of the overhead Roosevelt Island Tramcar, opened in the late 1970s and according to his daughters, they lived right there, and their dad loved taking them on that tramcar to Roosevelt Island. It also stands in the shadow of a Grey Giant (the UN Building that looks like the grey monlith in the image) and has a remarkable view of the Chrylser building (the eagle). But I digress ...

So, after traversing a LOT of ground and re-exploring some old theories with some new friends, the consensus is that while Byron MUST have buried a casque in his hometown area of Brooklyn or lower Manhattan, it is NOT at Prospect Park and probably not at Battery Park. Again, JPJ Park remains in the hunt, assuming the prose can really be tied in, and Roosevelt island (where Dickens visited -- him of Hard [Times] Words in Three original Vols. -- to write about the Lunatic Assylum there) remains a personal theory of some value, Image 12 and NY as a whole remains one heck of a mystery. When comparing Cleveland to Chicago, both images contained specific images that could be seen at the site location and the prose contained specific words or imagery that could also be seen at the exact spot, giving you the X marks the spot undeniable feeling. Unfortunately, that feeling did not exist at any of the locals we had a chance to visit, leaving us to feel more like we were trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. The search, and the documentary, continues ...
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Re: image 12

Postby Deuce » Wed Jul 30, 2014 3:17 am

Can't come to terms with Prospect Park NOT being the place after someone found it in the dress. 'B'elmont Island is directly north of Concert Grove to the inch. Gazing north you're looking towards Belmont. Nothing says you have to actually see the isle. Just look north and it's in that direction. Like an x marks the spot.
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Re: image 12

Postby Siskel » Wed Jul 30, 2014 3:52 am

Respectfully, finding Prospect Park in the dress/robes was a total stretch at best IMHO. As sure as I was that the casque was buried in the Greek Cultural Garden in Cleveland is as sure that I am it is NOT buried in Prospect Park. Look North to Belmont Island may seem to fit the clue, but it is WAY to obscure, random and non-specific when compared to the clues and methodology found in both the Cleveland and Chicago images/verses.

Posted some more info on our search in NY under Verse 10, for anyone interested.
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Re: image 12

Postby WhiteRabbit » Mon Aug 04, 2014 1:04 pm

This has probably been pointed out before, but maybe the image represents a depiction of Mary in one of these NY Russian churches or somewhere. Not this one, but something along these lines.

Image

Eg, this is in Carroll Gardens, Brooklyn.

Image

It's a common pose. I think this kind of thing must have been one of JJP's artistic influences for the pic.
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Re: image 12

Postby WhiteRabbit » Mon Aug 04, 2014 2:54 pm

Ironically I''m just starting to get into Prospect Park since Siskel mentioned it. That statue isn't far, Gershwin lived nearby at one time, eagles all over the place...perhaps the sign about the Indies native was at the zoo, which seems to have species native to the West Indies...
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Re: image 12

Postby Deuce » Tue Aug 05, 2014 12:41 am

Yes!!! Keep the Prospect Park idea alive. Siskel, I value your opinion. I've been adventuring down new avenues since your NY visit. I'm keeping Prospect on the back burner though. I agree that there isn't much going on there as far as visual clues. How confident are we that Central Park isn't a possible site? A lot of ideas I find point there but I dismiss them because of the email saying it's not there. I've been working on the letters in the image to try and figure something out. Got a few ideas. I'll post if I find something.
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Re: image 12

Postby DocZ » Wed Aug 20, 2014 6:32 am

Image 12 = Verse 6 = USS Maine Memorial at Merchant's gate.
I identified 4 more visual clues in the picture and I am absolutely certain.
My cousin is going to dig for me once she applies to the New York Parks department for the appropriate
"Research Permit" to dig and "Metal Detector Permit" for the ground penetrating radar I will hire, and "Film and Photography Permit" so she can film it for the documentary.

I'll fill you all in once the casque is out of the ground.
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Re: image 12

Postby Siskel » Wed Aug 20, 2014 2:38 pm

I will admit it has been a LONG time since I have considered any other verse in connection with Image 12. Maybe its just because it is so exhausting to think about going back and retracing steps and heading in an entirely different direction. And I remember years ago the email from BP saying "nothing was buried in Central Park" and I am paraphrasing here as I wish I could go back and read that actual email response again. Looking at your enthusiasm and confidence, I took a quick look and admittedly I DID get chills when I learned that the USS Maine Marine Monument was dedicated MAY 1913 (May 30th to be exact). Is it possible that Verse 6 works with Image 12?? And could the casque be buried just OUTSIDE of Central Park?? The woman rising over the water in image 12 does have at least a cursory resemblance at first glance to that bronze woman riding her sea shell being pulled by those three horses. After all the dead ends on this, I suppose anything is possible. And I sort of love that May 1913 reference. First time in a while the hair on the back of my next stood up and I got goosebumps. If your cousin is in NY and wants a partner to help, I would be more than happy to listen to your theories and assist anyway I can. Living so close to NYC, it would be easy to come in, and having found a casque previously, I bring a different perspective once standing in the right place.
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Re: image 12

Postby DocZ » Thu Aug 21, 2014 12:29 am

My cousin will be going to the site tomorrow for recognizance. She will text me some iPhone images.
I have seen several visual confirmers on Google Maps, but their images are copyrighted.
I have given her specific instructions of what I want photographed, and will post some of the images
once I have my own pictures.

It is one (or really 3) of those things that will give you chills, like
"Of course! How could I have been so blind to miss it until now?"

As a teaser, I will give you the 4th clue: On the Secret wiki, Sonoran claims that the bottom of the
flying woman's robes look like the coast of southern Manhattan.
Google map Manhattan and it just is not true. Now google map Maine and tell me we are not
looking at the northern and eastern border, rotated 180 degrees clockwise.
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Re: image 12

Postby Siskel » Thu Aug 21, 2014 1:01 am

DocZ,

You have my attention but I respectfully do not see Maine at any angle. Regardless, your certainty intrigues me and I am hoping there is more to go on. Looking forward to your future image postings.
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Re: image 12

Postby DocZ » Thu Aug 21, 2014 4:55 am

You see no similarity to the bottom left of her dress and an inverted Maine?

Well I just tried to upload an image - but I got an error that the board has reached its attachment limit.
I made the image my Avatar, so you can see what I am talking about, but it had to be scaled to 95 pixels on a side and a file size of 6 MB or less.
You can try to see it, but it is less clear when scaled down.

This does not bode well for all the visual clues I was going to add when my cousin sent them tomorrow.

Any Mods out there who can free up some memory?
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Re: image 12

Postby four21thrasher » Thu Aug 21, 2014 11:57 am

Hey. Doc. Lookin' forward to your posts later regardless what you find!

Yeah... the message attachment way of embedding a pic in a post doesn't seem to work. You'll need to use a third-party image hosting service and then link to the images. For instance, upload your images to MediaFire (free .com website). Once uploaded, grab the image URL and paste it in the text of your post. Be sure to put the [URL] tags around the link, though - both open and close! You can do that easily by highlighting only the link and then clicking the "URL" button in the formatting buttons during post edit.

Best of luck!
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Re: image 12

Postby DocZ » Fri Aug 22, 2014 5:45 am

Here is a test to see if Mediafire works:

https://www.mediafire.com/?6kk7pl93m2n3tbg


Edited to add: Annoying, but workable.
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