verse 8

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Re: verse 8

Postby decibalnyc » Thu Sep 11, 2014 7:43 pm

If you consider the Chicago casque, the clue L sits, is a big indicator...if you spotted the bowman on the picture and knew where that was, you would immediately get "L sits" and that is in the middle as well. Again, maybe there is 1 big thing that ties each one of these to a solution...The Greek Gardens, Lincoln Sitting, and the Grand Staircase...they all get you close, I feel it's right in line with the rest of them.
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Re: verse 8

Postby Xieish » Thu Sep 11, 2014 8:08 pm

I'm not sure every single Cleveland resident would go "The Greek Cultural Gardens!" when presented with "Socrates, Pindar, Apelles" as a clue. Same with Grant Park. It's definitely possible that this one is just an obvious clue - it sure hasn't gotten us a casque no matter how "obvious" it feels!

I do know what you mean though, I have a pet theory about Montreal that literally is just solving the last bit of the verse, I have no idea what the rest of it means. I have an idea of what the final marker could be and then that's it. *shrug* With Google maps it does make it a bit easier to try to "jump in."
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Re: verse 8

Postby decibalnyc » Thu Sep 11, 2014 8:34 pm

Well for right now, lets just concentrate on locations in Lake Park to rule out...there's

1. Old dig site
2. Old GS tree
3. ??
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Re: verse 8

Postby erexere » Thu Sep 11, 2014 8:46 pm

Das Boot Theory in Milwaukee

I have a very strong impression that the Imperial Standard of Measure for a League, that is 3 miles or distance walked in an hours time, is the device used to get us from important point A to important point B in this puzzle.

At this time, I'm hoping point B is the Kozy memorial, but is a result achieved without proper explanation of the verse or the image for that matter. I've outlined some ideas that get me there and nothing has been completely proven by any unique piece of evidence. (this is actually the case with just about anyone's theories for any of the other casques...whether they admit it or not...unless they're holding back some delicate details).

I have two ideas in mind for point A:
A1: visually, the exact shape of the spires of the City Hall can be matched while standing to the north at a spot in the city like E. State Street, this then might lead to or lead from A2
A2: View the three stories of Mitchell, I think it's one of four spots: Mitchell Hall, Mitchell Domes, Mitchell Street Bank, or the Wisconsin Club.

The second line of verse helps compel our view of A2, and it has to be something you walk, likely a path or street or maybe a bridge or something more diverse like a theater stage.

I call this the Das Boot Theory, because I'm trying to maintain a German perspective and I find the the general theme to be something related to walking, taking steps, ascending, climbing, and possibly even drinking. Take a look at this little bit of text I lifted from someone's blog on the history of drinking from a boot:

We’ve covered proper glassware and its importance to fully enjoying beer before. What we didn’t cover is some of the more unusual vessels out there for drinking beer, vessels like the glass boot. The 2006 comedy movie Beerfest brought some attention to this odd drinking cup, but didn’t really explain its history.

The exact origins of the glass boot are unknown, but there are several theories commonly proposed. The first and most popular theory suggests that the glass boot came to be about a hundred years ago. A German general promised his troops that he would drink from a shoe if they won a tough upcoming battle. To his surprise they did, but instead of sipping beer from his actual boot the general had a glass boot made just for him so he could honor his promise without the beer smelling like old socks. After that the practice caught on with soldiers throughout Germany and eventually the rest of the beer drinking world.

There are several other theories that suggest that drinking beer from a leather boot was a test of courage and/or a hazing ritual for men and soldiers dating back anywhere from 500 to 50 years ago. Although we may never know for sure when the boot came to be, the where was probably Germany, where the glass is known as a “bierstiefel.”

Today the boot is popular mostly among younger beer drinkers, especially those in college, who use the boot for various drinking games. Drinking very quickly from a bierstiefel with the toe of the boot pointing down creates a vacuum pocket which will eventually shoot the beer out of the glass. The challenge for these young revelers is to continue finishing the beer without letting the inevitable beer splash slow them down. Although we here at Beeriety don’t support most drinking games, we do support the celebration of ages old beer drinking tradition.

Glass boots come in many different shapes and sizes and are available at some finer beer bars and restaurants. The next time you’re out be sure to ask your server if they have any beer boots for you to try.
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Re: verse 8

Postby erexere » Fri Sep 12, 2014 12:03 am

Das Boot Theory continued 2/2

Verse line 1, I prefer the Mitchell connection of the Alexander Mitchell House (Wisconsin Club) at 900 Grand Ave. (now W. Wisconsin Ave). From this I presume we're either on a path fixed to one of four streets: 9th or 10th street, Wisconsin Ave. or W. Wells St. assuming you're viewing it's 3 stories from any one of the bordering streets.

Verse line 2, if my WWII theory is correct, confirms that we're on W. Wells. as we view it. This doesn't yet give us any specific direction to walk, and so we might asume having walked all around the Mitchell House before connecting to our next clue.

Verse line 3 and 5 stress the importance of some measure of distance dealing with the unit of time and space. I've jumped to the idea of using the Imperial Units Standards based on the word 'Imperial' being used in the reference to Germany in the Litany of the Jewels. Since we see the word 'three' being used three times in the verse, I've considered these lines about time and space have to do with the 3 miles walked in 1 hour unit of distance known as an Imperial League. This suggests to me that point of interest A and point of interest B might be one league apart or having to do with a "league" in another sense, like a team sport. One way to examine this might be to take a draft compass, set the center to the Mitchell House and draw a 3 mile radius arc on the city map and then see what might be interesting. 3 miles exactly south from the Wells St. side of the Mitchell House takes us to Modrzejewski Park. 3 miles northeast takes you to a spot in Lake Park just off of E. Belleview Place or about 1000 feet southwest of North Point Lighthouse.

Verse line 4 may be a good reference to the founders of the "Deutscher" German Club that took up residence in the vacated Mitchell House,

In 1891 three Milwaukee businessmen, General F. C. Winkler, George Koeppen and Henry Gugler, held several meetings with sixty other men at the old Plankinton House Hotel to organize the founding of a new social club. The purpose of the club was to promote and provide a venue for German-American understanding and fellowship, a reflection of the large German immigration to Milwaukee at the end of the nineteenth century.

The first home of the new club, called the ‘Deutscher’ or ‘German’ Club, was in the Old Opera House near the site of the present Pabst Theatre. In early 1894 a fire broke out and severely damaged the clubrooms. A new home had to be found.

Several alternatives were considered including disbanding the club which was in a poor financial state. When the vacant Mitchell Mansion on Grand Avenue (now Wisconsin Avenue) was brought to the attention of club members, shortly after the death of Alexander Mitchell, all thoughts of dissolution vanished. An offer of over $100,000 was made and accepted. The Deutscher Club moved into its new quarters in early 1895 and began to settle in for a long stay.

On May 1, 1895 the Club held their opening night party in the Mitchell home with over 450 attendees; this without any of the new rooms which were eventually added by the Club.


The pattern on the woman's collar in the image matches the doors to the Pabst Theater very well. This may be considered a strong connection to the Deutscher Club.

Verse line 6 is simply phenomenal. I'm currently holding onto the wild idea that it has to do with chambermaids.

Verse line 7 in connection with a chambermaid has me thinking of the vacuum cleaner. This is such a fresh thought, that its probably wrong, but for the moment I like the previous use of the word 'space', combined with 'silently' makes me think of the "sound doesn't travel in a vacuum" idea. Jumping to the different sense of the word and a maid servant really appeals to me.
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Re: verse 8

Postby renovator » Fri Sep 12, 2014 1:09 pm

Here is something i haven't liked about the grand staircase: It's very obvious, and theoretically allows anyone to pick up the hunt in the middle, or shoot, toward the end.


True, but only to a point. It's not enough to find the 92 steps, although that's a great start. Before one can be fully convinced that these are the correct steps, (s)he needs to be convinced that the 9 lines that precede "ascend the 92 steps" lead clearly and unambiguously to the bottom of that staircase. Since I absolutely believe this to be the case (with only minor hiccups that I am willing to discount to "poetic license on Preiss' part), I'm willing to continue my search from this point with confidence. Of course, I am assuming a clear, linear path, but in the case of Verse 8, I think that is what we are dealing with.

For the record, I don't think for one minute that Preiss walked this exact route with a shovel and a backpack, looking for a place to dig a hole. He probably scouted the location and the surrounding area first, then later drove and parked on LMD. Walking the park a second time, he took pictures and notes, and finding himself back on LMD (but from a different direction), decided he had too much invested in the area to not bury the casque there. Near the soccer field was just the most convenient place (although as we are finding out, a killer in terms of long term viability of some of the clues). Pure speculation on my part, but consistent with me trying to put myself in his boots in an effort to understand the methodology a little bit more.
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Re: verse 8

Postby decibalnyc » Fri Sep 12, 2014 3:30 pm

Here is why I don't think it is in the woods...or in an area behind the woodline. This could be totally wrong, but I am just using common sense. BP had a shovel and a box to bury (as far as we know). If you've done any digging or landscaping, you know that any wooded area is bound to have large root systems all over the place. BP didn't fly around with an axe and I doubt he bought one in every city and left it... To get in and out, and have dug a 3' hole, buried something and covered it back up...he wouldn't want to mess around with roots or anything that would cause a delay in getting it done. Not to say he didn't clear the burial sites ahead of time...maybe testing the locations to see if they were good for someone to dig a hole in without too much notice, I'm not ruling it out...but I don't think he did.

Chicago was not in the woods, trees were planted after he was there and we were told the 10 by 13 was a foot measurement.
Cleveland wasn't in the woods, although it was in a planter box in an area near woods.

If the Houston and St. Augustine theories are correct they wouldn't be in a woods either.

The reverse of this is that Milwaukee is one of the few images that has any kind of architectural representation in it...no stone pillars, buildings (city hall is just a city indicator,) hardly any designs that can clearly be matched to anything in architecture like the fence post in Chi or Siskel and Eg's wall. It has visual clues starring you right in the face...but the image on the cape...what many consider 1 of the 2 big indicators....not a wall, or fence, or anything apparently man made...no...a tree of some sort. It's been discussed that the bumps on the trees could represent the 4 tree's you need to find the "proud tall 5th." The straight one in the center has 1 small bump, the one to the left of center 2 bumps, right of center 3 bumps, and the 4th one seems to have many bumps at least 4. Are these the pass 3...ridiculous!

I don't want this to be buried in the forest or near the woodline, but based on the picture, all the visuals I have come across, and the lack of any kind of visual indicator for something other than trees...I feel this one may be real close to a wood line or near a tree. I have to accept there is a more than fair chance that it could be near a tree...unfortunately. If there were any more obvious indications of visual clues other than trees I would be skeptical, but with as much tree stuff as I see in the image...SIGH...it could be near a tree.
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Re: verse 8

Postby Xieish » Fri Sep 12, 2014 5:00 pm

Montreal's verse specifically calls out the forest, it's likely buried in a more wooded area. Though it also gives you a direct landmark to look for (stone closet). It also uses paces as a count off, which I just don't like at all. Not that I disagree with "paces" being literal paces taken by an adult human, but just because as was shown in CLE you can be so close and still completely miss the casque. Paces seems really arbitrary when a foot in either direction matters a ton.
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Re: verse 8

Postby forest_blight » Fri Sep 12, 2014 5:07 pm

To the doubters (photos courtesy stercox), once again, from the top:

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

Bonus:

Image
Image
Image
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Re: verse 8

Postby WhiteRabbit » Fri Sep 12, 2014 5:16 pm

Well, thanks Forest, that seems pretty conclusive...though I doubt Erexere will have any of it... :D

Here is something i haven't liked about the grand staircase: It's very obvious, and theoretically allows anyone to pick up the hunt in the middle, or shoot, toward the end.


I wouldn't get too hung up on the idea of the Grand Staircase being too obvious and in the middle. There need to be some intelligible clues FFS, and burying them under more obscure references seems as good a way of sowing confusion as any.
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Re: verse 8

Postby erexere » Fri Sep 12, 2014 5:34 pm

Thanks. Now I see how you have tailored the count to exclude those 3 steps that aren't used to climb to the top, and dismiss the 4 steps on the approach to the first landing.

Its a great candidate, but WRabbit is right, Im not convinced.

The Plankington Arcade is all together 92 steps, no more, no less, so its also a candidate. Something more that I'm examining is the possibility of using the last entry in the Abroad in America book to justify Byrons fascination with H.G. Wells. Remember the cool rotating disk on the back of the Time Machine in the film? Take a moment and look at the Plankington Arcade Wishing Well center and statue surrounded by circle of stairs. It looks quite similar to me. It is something you "cast in copper" pennies into for making a wish.

My point is start at W W_ll_(900 W.Wells) and walk south 1 block to 900 Grand Ave. (Deutscher Club/Mitchell House), walk 7 blocks (seven juggled objects?) east to 200 Grand Grand Ave., toss a penny, make a wish and be transported through time and space to the casque's location. Watch out for Morlocks...
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Re: verse 8

Postby Xieish » Fri Sep 12, 2014 5:55 pm

Here's the thing with the "7 juggled objects" thing - we have no way of ever knowing if that's right. So far we have 2 puzzles solved with more or less straightforward clues. There are directions and Polaroids snapped along the way to confirm that you're following the correct path.

SO FAR there isn't an instance of having to use the image to interpret a clue, they just confirm you're on the right path, or offer their own clues (map of OH for example). How would one know to do that, and how could one ever know that they're right? I think that every step you take can be confirmed visually in the image, and as such I think taking 7 anything because their are 7 objects is folly.
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Re: verse 8

Postby erexere » Fri Sep 12, 2014 6:03 pm

Agreed. Folly. We are dealing with the Dwarven puzzle...depths unknown.
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Re: verse 8

Postby decibalnyc » Fri Sep 12, 2014 6:53 pm

Xieish wrote:Here's the thing with the "7 juggled objects" thing - we have no way of ever knowing if that's right. So far we have 2 puzzles solved with more or less straightforward clues. There are directions and Polaroids snapped along the way to confirm that you're following the correct path.

SO FAR there isn't an instance of having to use the image to interpret a clue, they just confirm you're on the right path, or offer their own clues (map of OH for example). How would one know to do that, and how could one ever know that they're right? I think that every step you take can be confirmed visually in the image, and as such I think taking 7 anything because their are 7 objects is folly.


Let me understand....you are saying that every line of the verse should have an image confirmation or???
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Re: verse 8

Postby renovator » Fri Sep 12, 2014 8:34 pm

To the doubters (photos courtesy stercox), once again, from the top:


Not me. Of all the slam dunks in this puzzle, and there aren't that many, this is one of the slam dunkiest. Ironically, it is immediately followed by the most obscure (at least to me) clue.
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