Re: The slow spill

[four21thrasher]

Here are the I/V pairings:
I---V
1--7
2--6
3--11
4--4
5--12
6--9
7--2
8--1
9--5
10--8
11--3
12--10

It will become apparent that they cannot be any other.

[four21thrasher]

The intent of the puzzle was not to get us to follow clues (i.e., from A to B to C to D) to a treasure site, but to determine which clues we should be looking for. We were taken to A and B and C and D for a reason, but not to dig. Ever wonder why you always end up on an "overlook" when trying to follow a path? Ask yourself the question when you get there... "What am I overlooking?"

[four21thrasher]

Here are the I/V pairings:

You cannot tie a verse to an image with any certainty, rather you must tie each to a city. They can only then be paired.

[four21thrasher]

Here is my take on the pictures, and I invite comments.  I have not yet collaborated with my former college roommate, who may have different ideas on this:

1.  The Months.  

2.  The Blue Aura.

3.  The Faeries.  

1. These prove a constant, clues are predictable. If you think you have correctly interpreted the count or clock in an image, there is another clue to confirm you are correct (and you can accurately predict what it is). Likewise, if you can identify the jewel, you can accurately predict a count or a clock in the image.

2. These are found in many of JJP's paintings outside of the book, and they mean nothing to this book (e.g., https://i.pinimg.com/originals/8e/61/80/8e6180009c20a103fb2cf6a67136421f.jpg).

3. The type of character does not give a clue, but the fairy is always a clue. A predictable one at that.
*edit: I take this back. the type of character is a clue, too. a confirmation clue, and a predictable one.

At a distance in space, at a distance in time
Count on the spheres/circles, count on the clock the clock
Fairy secrets come in twos. This and that. Women and men. Entrance and exit.

[four21thrasher]

Ask yourself the question when you get there... "What am I overlooking?"

from stone to stone to stone to stone
from person to person to person to person
from sign to sign to sign to sign
from gate to gate to gate to gate
from column to column to column to column
from direction to direction to direction to direction
from building to building to building to building
...

[four21thrasher]

You don't need any of this to start out, but it's there. Cleveland was proof of concept. The poet (pindar) and the artist (apelles) come together in one place - the wall, shown in the image. You weren't supposed to figure that out at the time, though. You were just supposed to eventually be able to dig it up.

Moving to Chicago, you needed to start to evaluate what was important in the previous puzzle. Was it columns, statues, roads, walls, people, words? The puzzle seems to work in much the same manner as Cleveland (i.e., follow the description of things), but we know that Chicago is just a bit different. In Chicago, the intent was never to get a person to actually dig up the casque here. It was to make it as nearly easy to get to the spot as in Cleveland, but slightly more difficult by moving the usage of the clues a bit to the more abstract.

Chicago's image was a city on broad shoulders, a windy city
Chicago's poem was Sandburg - Chicago Poems, Windy City, City of the Broad Shoulders
They come together at Sandburg's A fence... shown in the image.

Get THERE, and BP gave it up.

[four21thrasher]

Progressively, the puzzles get more difficult. The verbatim clues disappear - both image and verse - and very quickly. You start believing you are still being told where to go, in detail, but it's because you are following the wrong clues. Eventually though, if you know what you are looking for, you need no direction at all, and the verse and image can lead you in completely the wrong direction.

[four21thrasher]

When you do know what you are looking for, clues and their placement become predictable. You have to be playful, though.
Pandora
Longfellow
Rosetti
Red Cross

The poet and the painters come together at the compass rose.

Do you see it?

[four21thrasher]

When you do know what you are looking for, clues and their placement become predictable. You have to be playful, though.
The poet and the painters come together at the compass rose.

North of this
Take steps in this area
In the area of direction
In the middle
Pass that
Face this
Put your back to that
Feel at this

Directions... look for directions. Where are there directions?

[four21thrasher]

Do you wonder why more and more and more parks in each city become plausible?
Do you wonder why more and more and more spots in each park become plausible?
Why this park over that? Why this spot over that?
Sure that looks like a circle from the image, sure that looks like a square from the image.
Sure that verse seems to describe this, sure that verse seems to describe that.
Who am I to argue about interpretation?

As the puzzles get harder, the manner of determining where to go becomes more and more necessary and less and less evident.
You may think you got the Greek gardens by using the obvious clues, and you did. Same with Chicago, somewhat.
But BP obscured the way he wanted you to get there. You have to start figuring this out as the obvious clues drift away.

[BINGO]

When you do know what you are looking for, clues and their placement become predictable. You have to be playful, though.
The poet and the painters come together at the compass rose.

North of this
Take steps in this area
In the area of direction
In the middle
Pass that
Face this
Put your back to that
Feel at this

Directions... look for directions. Where are there directions?

I will call a bit of BS here. You are clearly speaking about Boston and I simply don’t buy the vagueness of your statements. You, me and anyone with an imagination can connect the verse/poem with just about any location if we try hard enough. I’ve read through dozens of your posts before you edit/scrubbed them and you are just as guilty as anyone of doing this. (For more than one site in Boston alone.)
Where does the painter give you anything compass rose related? JJP is a fantastic artist, when looking at his work there is no need for visual interpretation. His image “confirmers” are beyond question. Pray tell, what has the artist given you to land at the Compass Rose?

[BINGO]

reading through dozens of his posts was one thing, understanding what he wrote in his post was another...

I would love to understand. This is exactly why I posed the question. Everything he has said is wonderful, lovely and a great way to think about the puzzles. I am simply asking him to back up his statements with proof or at least new information. The exact thing he would have required before his previous temper tantrum.
Never mind though, I suppose I would need a press pass like yours to figure it out.

[four21thrasher]

I will call a bit of BS here. You are clearly speaking about Boston and I simply don’t buy the vagueness of your statements. You, me and anyone with an imagination can connect the verse/poem with just about any location if we try hard enough. I’ve read through dozens of your posts before you edit/scrubbed them and you are just as guilty as anyone of doing this. (For more than one site in Boston alone.)

Not really sure how to respond to this. Sure, I removed a bunch of posts... it had to do with Renner, not whether I perceived the connections to be correct or incorrect. And yes, lots of it was me trying to connect a verse/image with about any location, same as the rest of the board. How is that working out for everyone? I've been here about a decade, and others twice that. How many times does it take to try and fit a round peg in a square hole before you realize it ain't productive.

These posts are not meant to be vague, but divulging all at once is impossible. And, understanding all at once is just as unwieldy. A decade of searching can't be explained in a few posts. Your assumption is there's a simple answer. It's not that simple as you've seen.

Where does the painter give you anything compass rose related? Pray tell, what has the artist given you to land at the Compass Rose?

Rosetti
Red Cross
The compass rose behind Pandora

It's not just about identifying what the artist gives you... bowman, lady of lakes, horses, columns, lions, jewels, walls, numbers, flowers, fairies, etc... it's what he gives you that is productive for finding the site. The same goes for the verses.

JJP is a fantastic artist, when looking at his work there is no need for visual interpretation. His image “confirmers” are beyond question.

Who decides what the image confirmers are?

Is the war memorial woman an image confirmer? Could it be another statue?
Is the building in the box BU Castle? Could it be another building?
Is Ponce one? You sure that's ponce?
Are the greek columns one? You sure they are the ones at the head of the garden?

Who decides which image confirmers are important?
Why was it not buried by the cup in the Italian gardens?
Why was it not buried by the Great Lakes or Bowman statues?

[BINGO]

JJP is a fantastic artist, when looking at his work there is no need for visual interpretation. His image “confirmers” are beyond question.

Who decides what the image confirmers are?

Is the war memorial woman an image confirmer? Could it be another statue?
Is the building in the box BU Castle? Could it be another building?
Is Ponce one? You sure that's ponce?
Are the greek columns one? You sure they are the ones at the head of the garden?

Who decides which image confirmers are important?
Why was it not buried by the cup in the Italian gardens?
Why was it not buried by the Great Lakes or Bowman statues?

Honestly, I’ve been all over Boston everyday for the last 5 years and I don’t buy a single image match that people have come up with and hold as gospel. Columbus statue, war memorial, 2c structure, electrical box/ pipe on the bridge, Leif Ericsson statue are all a joke in comparison to the Chicago fence, the Bowman, the Cleveland wall, all of the other known and undisputed image “confirmers”.
To me, anything less than that is a case of visual interpretation. I’m not saying that you are wrong, I’m simply asking for the evidence.

[four21thrasher]

I would love to understand. This is exactly why I posed the question. Everything he has said is wonderful, lovely and a great way to think about the puzzles. I am simply asking him to back up his statements with proof or at least new information.

With all respect, your frustration is not with the lack of information being presented, it's with the lack of understanding, as you stated. I do aim to give you the ability to put it together, but I must first present it.

That being said, you can lead a horse to water...

Honestly, I’ve been all over Boston everyday for the last 5 years and I don’t buy a single image match that people have come up with and hold as gospel. Columbus statue, war memorial, 2c structure, electrical box/ pipe on the bridge, Leif Ericsson statue are all a joke in comparison to the Chicago fence, the Bowman, the Cleveland wall, all of the other known and undisputed image “confirmers”. To me, anything less than that is a case of visual interpretation.

Good, than you can see already that the image confirmers disappear, much like anything truly meaningful in the verses. What would make you think that you need these to solve a puzzle, then? Many have looked for 20+ years... just one more to find the right one, right?