Verse 9

[erexere]

"With wind rose" seems to fit the Cattle Point Lighthouse which has been primarily a radio compass beacon which allows ships to pinpoint position in the most dense fog.

[fox]

Quick recap: Seloy is the Indian village where Florida's Fountain of Youth was built. It has a sign which says: "The First Chapter". Image 6 resembles its statue of Ponce de Leon. It had geese and a green picket fence. It also has a "silver salt" cellar connected with Ponce de Leon, with a sign describing it as a "casque" - an unusual word that BP uses for the treasure boxes. The Fountain of Youth is mentioned in the introduction.

[erexere]

I recognize the SELOY theory, but it only holds based on underpinnings such as assuming Preiss gave us a perfectly ordered anacrostic in verse; if the anacrostic were jumbled just slightly it would fit really well with the O as a B and SELBY has meets a comfortable and straightforwards criteria.  All Preiss had to ask was 'why was Pickett in San Juan Island?' A: because Selby Harney dispatched him there on a fortification mission...that resulted in a *cough* fornification with Morning Mist.  All this being pre-Sumpter of course.

[shecrab]

erex: I understand you want to uncover something here, but ask yourself this question: why?   Why would BP want the verses mixed up? What purpose would it serve, first of all, and if that were true, one might just make anything one wanted to out of the lines!

I mean, if we allow a mass reordering of the lines of the verses, then you could spell just about anything from their first letters--and that just would not be fair. Not to mention that re-ordering the lines to get the acrostic you want makes the verse say something other than what it intends. Do it in this verse, and you'd pretty much have to allow it in all the other verses--and though re-ordering the lines in this one may not actually hurt the location information, it certainly would in other verses. I strongly caution you against trying to fit the verse to your idea by chopping it up and rearranging it--from the solves we know, that's just not how this hunt was structured.

[erexere]

Why? is the question all right.  I think the two solves so far -and I'm working to better understand them still- show us distinctly different approaches while being similar in a flexible context.  I'm not attempting to mix verses, only to mix lines in one particular verse.  The basis for my doing so is no stronger or weaker than the arguement to take an acrostic at face value.  Evidence that Preiss used American Indian material doesn't mean he will always use it to lead us to a casque.  I'm merely doubtful on the basis that I didn't find a conquistidor anywhere near the setting of P6.  I found a heavy custom crafted iron chain with links shaped like a conquistador's helmet and I found a Don Quixote reference in an Associated Press article from 1979 that may work into this, but that is all.  Trust me, ther is no Ponce in this setting.  Now I have my guard up about some of the tricks Preiss has pulled from his hat.  He wants us to think Florida with P6.  He wants us to pair with V9 with SELOY.

(Edit: continued)

The artifice of the SELOY acrostic identifies with V12's usage of single letter clues M B L and R.  Priess must've thought "I'll give them this simple one-letter identifier just to warm them up for what I've got planned for Verse 9...hee hee," okay maybe he didn't hee hee, but even if he didn't plan it, I'm just bent against the idea of SELOY for the reason that it doesn't fit at all with the San Juan Island in Washington idea.

I asked myself, why are we just taking the SELOY letters...wouldn't be cooler to use all the lines for the acrostic: TWNWBAAYSSSELOY.

TO NW WA SAYS SELBY = "to Northwest Washington says Selby."  William Selby Harney sends George E. Pickett and company to Northwest Washington's San Juan Island.  This rearrangement of the acrostic doesn't mean we have to alter the intention of the verse.  Most of it looks one-liner-ish anyways.

[erexere]

New ordering of lines to Verse 9 w/ interpretation-


The first chapter  - the first fraternity (crossover to the Boston casque)
Over the tall grass - "over" is a clue to radio transmission protocol and the site I am considering is a field of tall grass
Near men - men close together would point to the barracks in this setting
With wind rose - is a radio compass
Written in water - message in waves (supports the radio compass idea)
At the base of a tall tree - "base" as in military outpost, a tree near it
Stars move by day - flagpole with US flag at site
And a green picket fence - "a green" is "GENERA-" or General Pickett
You can still hear the honking - ?
Shell, limestone, silver, salt - abalone
Sails pass by night - light house
Even in darkness - this and next two lines seem like instructions to line up a view
Like moonlight in teardrops - something white inside a circle
Behind bending branches - standing at a tree such that the white object is behind
Years pass, rain falls. - erosion?                                                     

Architectural note on windows of Selby Abbey in the the town of Selby in North Yorkshire, England:  A notable feature of the Abbey is the 14th century Washington Window, featuring the heraldic arms of the ancestors of George Washington, the first president of the United States.The design is often cited as an influence for the Stars and Stripes flag.

[WhiteRabbit]

Behind bending branches = filler text to get SELBY
Years pass, rain falls.  = more filler

*cough, splutter*

Filler? Don't think so. There's few enough clues in these verses already without randomly ignoring parts of them.

[erexere]

okay, that was a slip up.  My brain siezed and I got lazy at the end of the night.  Preiss uses extreme word economy.  Lots of meaning hangs on each word.  Its almost as if everything were translated from a native american story teller.

Years pass, rain falls...some kind of heavily erroded stone or area?

[forest_blight]

I asked myself, why are we just taking the SELOY letters...wouldn't be cooler to use all the lines for the acrostic: TWNWBAAYSSSELOY.

I think that would have been a little *too* obvious. Once it was recognized that there was an acrostic in play, one could simply look up "Seloy" in an encyclopedia and know immediately that FOY was the site, without having to combine a verse and an image, follow meticulously developed clues, etc. Burying "Seloy" amid gibberish was brilliant, the verbal equivalent of hiding the Chicago Water Tower in a painting. Insisting that every first letter contribute to the acrostic would be like insisting that every letter in a word search puzzle be part of a word. There would be no challenge anymore.

[erexere]

I see you're point.  Props to the brilliance in the design of this verse too.

I wonder if anyone would ever consider "washington window" and connect it to the Selby Abbey and then spot the acrostic similarity in Seloy?

[shecrab]

I don't think the SELOY anacrostic is in any way meant to lead us to the casque. I think it's a hidden extra that will confirm the location later, after the OTHER elements are discovered and the location is narrowed down. Once you begin researching the St. Augustine area, you will, probably, as we did here on this board, find the word "Seloy" in your research and you'll have a sort of "aha!" moment with the verse and you'll know you're on the right track.

Nor do I believe that BP is using any sort of tricks. While meditating today, I had a good long think about how these puzzles were structured, and one thing kept coming up again and again. There were no tricks, no oblique references, no third-layer sets of meanings, no word play. They were very straightforward, used the real initial letters of their locations or items, (i.e., L for Lincoln) real images of real things that were there in the location, and only follow a pattern insofar as they all have a country, gem, month, number and flower associated. There are latitudes and longitudes in each image. Each image follows its country of association into the location somehow--in Cleveland, the assocation is Greece, the location was the Greek cultural Gardens. In Chicago it is Ireland, the location was in Bryant Park, home of Chicago's Irish Festival ( a major event.) There is a building or structure that is not a composite of many things, but depicted whole and entire--in Image 4, it is the Cleveland Terminal Tower, in Image 5, the Chicago Water Tower. In Image 8, it is Milwaukee City Hall. I believe he had these things included to get us to the correct CITY ONLY. The verse would then narrow down the location further, as would other elements in the Images. These buildings or structures are not private houses, obscure landmarks or otherwise unknown or random inclusions--they are major city elements and can be used to visually identify the place. The castle on the box in Image 11 is probably the Park Plaza Hotel castle.

I don't think BP was trying  to be obvious, but I really don't think he was trying to be so tricky that it would take layers upon layers of sleuthing to uncover what was simply THERE, but not well-observed.

[fox]

 He wants us to think Florida with P6.  He wants us to pair with V9 with SELOY.

And he wants us to find the treasure. Once we think Florida and pair V9 w/ I6....viola. If he were hiding his life savings of a billion dollars, then perhaps he would make it near impossible. This is a treasure hunt for fun.

[erexere]

I've been wondering if its possible somehow to determine whether some locations were meant to be easier than others or which is meant to be the hardest.  Probably they are simply one way or another and this question has no meaning.  The only thing I can think of is to seek answers within the historic register.  "Lane" was the name of my first school after Joseph Lane.  "Two twenty two" followed easily after focusing on Oregon.  The rest of the verse breakdown "see Image 6 and other ramblings" and Verse 5 thread for details, didn't look impossibly tricky although each image element had a small disguise.  Local knowledge and familiarity play the most vital role first in getting on track and then at the end when you have to be right on the site most central.

[erexere]

New ordering of lines to Verse 9 w/ interpretation-


The first chapter  - the first fraternity (crossover to the Boston casque)
Over the tall grass - "over" is a clue to radio transmission protocol and the site I am considering is a field of tall grass
Near men - men close together would point to the barracks in this setting
With wind rose - is a radio compass
Written in water - message in waves (supports the radio compass idea)
At the base of a tall tree - "base" as in military outpost, a tree near it
Stars move by day - flagpole with US flag at site
And a green picket fence - "a green" is "GENERA-" or General Pickett
You can still hear the honking - ?
Shell, limestone, silver, salt - abalone
Sails pass by night - light house
Even in darkness - this and next two lines seem like instructions to line up a view
Like moonlight in teardrops - something white inside a circle
Behind bending branches - standing at a tree such that the white object is behind
Years pass, rain falls. - erosion?                                                      

Architectural note on windows of Selby Abbey in the the town of Selby in North Yorkshire, England:  A notable feature of the Abbey is the 14th century Washington Window, featuring the heraldic arms of the ancestors of George Washington, the first president of the United States.The design is often cited as an influence for the Stars and Stripes flag.

I made several small changes to my original interpretation.  The lines have been rearranged a tad and this is the SELBY-PICKETT theory to be paired with Image 12 for a San Juan Island, Washington location.

If people have time to use these forums for discussion, I'd like to know if anyone else has ideas of their own about small clues in verse or image that crossover to another casque location.  As you can see I've marked the version 2.0 line of verse 9 as belonging to the Boston location.  I'm saying this because I'm trying to avoid over forcing the solution.  We can also discuss further the re-arrangement of the verse here to create a complete acrostic of TO NW WA SAYS SELBY.  A good poll question would be:  Does this rearrangement of the parts change the meaning of the whole so much that this is simply too unlikely? Y/N.

Another note about the SELBY idea cooperates with my claim that LANE from verse 5 was a reference to Joseph Lane.  Both William SELBY Harney and Joseph LANE were GENERALS in the Mexican-American War.

I'm sorry if I'm not attaching my theories to the fantasy angle of the book.  Fairies are cool to consider, but I'm working more from an American history angle as I believe progress will come from eventful moments that aren't overwhelmingly known in common knowledge having to do with early presidents, wars, architecture, the founding of cities and towns, Native American history, and the history of slavery all might apply.  Who were the first members of Congress?  Who were the first Territorial Governors?  Who were the first Settlers to make contact with Native American Chiefs?  Who were the first Slaves to persevere and show dignity as they fought for freedom?  Where did significant cultural history take root and only result as a page 2 or back page story rather than a front page headline?  What were our first News papers in America?  Lots of little questions may very well have worthwhile answers.  Why was the Liberty Bell hidden in Allentown, PA for so long?  What's the story about General Pickett having married a Native American princess?  Where is Fort Mandan and who built it?  Not all these questions specifically pertain, but these "cogs" must be allowed to turn if casques are to be found.  Cogs for Casques...I like the sound of that.

[WhiteRabbit]

Couple of thoughts on the FOY version.

I'm wondering if you actually need to enter FOY at all on this trail, or whether all the action takes place just outside in Magnolia.

The first chapter
Written in water

"First chapter" sign seen from the road:



Near men
With wind rose

(Can't remember what this is, some FOY information board about sailors or something)

Behind bending branches
And a green picket fence
At the base of a tall tree

Further down the road is this green picket fence at the base of a tall tree, and the wall pattern resembling Ponce's jacket.



These lines have previously been taken to indicate a spot which is at the base of a tall tree, and which is behind bending branches and a green picket fence within FOY. But there's another way to read it.

If you were at the bottom of Magnolia just beyond this, it would be behind you. In other words, continue down Magnolia from the sign, to that place behind the bending branches of the trees that line the road, and that green picket fence that's at the base of a tall tree.

You can still hear the honking

The goose pen somewhere on the other side of the wall.

Shell, limestone, silver, salt

The wall of oyster shells, and a reference to FOY's "casque", the silver salt cellar.

Stars move by day

The FOY planetarium, which you can see from the spot by the picket fence:



Sails pass by night
Even in darkness

Not sure

Like moonlight in teardrops

Could be: like moonlight (silver) in teardrops (salt), another reference to the silver salt cellar, and/or a reference to the arab myth of oyster pearls being dewdrops filled with moonlight.

Over the tall grass
Years pass, rain falls.

The years of youth pass, the "rain" is from a fountain; hence Fountain of Youth, over the long grass by the wall.

I previously mentioned the shape of the undulating wall in the clouds and rock edge of this image. This can also be seen in the flag. I'm convinced the casque is in the cannon area, where the verge widens like the flag, but I'm still not entirely sure where. I suspect that the strange shapes in the horse and rider might hold a clue.