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Re: image 1

Postby ac3100 » Tue Oct 31, 2006 5:10 am

Forest Blight - Yes, that is what I am seeing.  I think the similarities from the artwork to the monument are too close to be a coincidence.  The shoulder and arm outline is not the same on either side, but I think the fact that they are not uniform, like the monument, is what is important here.  It does appear that the left arm/shoulder matches better on the left side of the monument than right.

As far as the timing goes, I researched this during my discovery phase a few months back.  This is the general story about how the monument got there:

"How do I get to Angel Island? What will I see there?
Our section Island Information has information on how to visit Angel Island Immigration Station as well as other information about the Island (ferries, campsites, tours, etc). To visit the Station, visitors will need to take a ferry from either Tiburon, San Francisco, or Oakland/Alameda to Angel Island, and then walk about a mile to the station. The Immigration Station site has a few remaining buildings: a power plant, hospital, pump house, mule barn, and barracks (which contain the poetry). The barracks houses a museum and is the only building open to the public by guided tour. A mess hall and two other barracks remain from when the site was used as a World War II prisoner of war processing center. The site also has restrooms, a drinking fountain, a historic fog warning bell once on the wharf's pier, and a monument donated in 1979 by Victor Bergeron, owner of Trader Vic's restaurant in San Francisco."

This is from: http://www.aiisf.org/faqs

So the date fits and since it was somewhat new at the time of the writing of the book and was probably a "good fit" and/or too hard to ignore for the author.  I understand that he had a freind or relative in the area and probably tipped him off of this.

As far as Coit Tower goes, It is an important part of this puzzle, but I don't beleive that it is the area of interest.  I will explain later..
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Re: image 1

Postby Trohn » Tue Oct 31, 2006 1:06 pm

I am (as most of us) sold that this image is some where
in San Francisco.

Also, as a nod to Andy, I will repeat the mantra that
the placement of the jewel in the image is paramont
in determining the exact digging spot for the casque.
(from general clues to the specfic location orientation)

An observation that I have been going on with this
image - the arms represent a bridge (crossing)

So either the Golden Gate or the Bay Bridge.

The jewel is situated at the middle of the 'crossing'

What is the view of Alcatraz from Angel Island.
(This would be helpful detrmining if an island could be
the site as opposed to a main land location)
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Re: image 1

Postby Jambone » Tue Oct 31, 2006 1:16 pm

ac3100 wrote:Forest Blight - Yes, that is what I am seeing.  I think the similarities from the artwork to the monument are too close to be a coincidence.  The shoulder and arm outline is not the same on either side, but I think the fact that they are not uniform, like the monument, is what is important here.  It does appear that the left arm/shoulder matches better on the left side of the monument than right.


I would say that in the above picture, the outline of the monument appears to be a mirror image of the silhouette of the shoulders.  I think it's actually a good match.  Nice work!
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Re: image 1

Postby boogieman » Wed Nov 01, 2006 12:24 am

What verses have we put aside for us to match with San fran?  Gonna have to steal from another image?

Nice job acAndy!
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Re: image 1

Postby ac3100 » Wed Nov 01, 2006 5:00 pm

This as far as I could get with the image at this point.  I started to look at the verses and started with verse 7 because that was the one that was linked to the image at the time.  There was no mention of New Orleans that I was aware of.

I'm not sure if I should post this here or on the verse 7 page.  I will let the moderators guide me on this.

I looked at a lot of the comments about this and took some that make sense to me and added a bit of myown thoughts.

At stone wall's door
The air smells sweet


Because of the backwards Gh, I thought that this part was a direct link to the picture.  A great start in my opinion.  Ghiradehli building San Francisco.

Not far away
High posts are three
Education and Justice
For all to see 


There are some refernces to buildings in the downtown SF area, I decided not to pursue this line too much atthis point because it seems very vague to me.


Sounds from the sky
Near ace is high

I believed this to be Highway 1 and possibly the golden gate bridge reference. Possibly SFO international. Again pretty vague.

I think the main purpose of the first part of the poem is to get you to the downtown area of San Francisco.  There are a lot of images that reference the area as well.

The part in the girls hair: Golden Gate bridge
The Coit tower in her dress
Golden Gate park The blue/dragon part of the dress.
The coordinates
Possibly Alcratraz Island with the window at the to of the rock formation.
among other things.

I really think that that is all the author is trying to do here.  If any of these locations are the location of the Jewel, which one do you pick?


For me this is the next four lines gets you to Angel Island:

Running north, but first across

I think this is a very important clue.

Across what?  Based on the picture and the monument on angel Island and having a starting point of downtown SF, it all fits too well to mean that he is talking about water.  You must go NORTH across the water to Angel Island.  Angel Island happens to be directly North of Downtown SF.

In jewel's direction

This to me simply means that the jewel is North of our starting point.  Not in the downtown area


These two lines are cleverly written

Is an object
Of Twain's attention


I think it may have a dual meaning.  As you know Mark Twain spent a considerable amount of time living and work in SF as a newspaper reporter.  He is also known for his steamship escapades.  The steamship might be a refernce to going across the water, maybe not. 

The second theory is that the word "attention" has a military signifcance.  Here is an article about Mark Twains visit to Angel Island in 1864(Civil war era).
In July of 1864 General Irvin McDowell, Commanding Officer of the Department of the Pacific, made an inspection tour of Angel Island. Accompanying the Army officers and dignitaries on the tour was a young reporter who later would become famous as “Mark Twain,” but at the time, proud of being a reporter, called himself “Clemens, of the Call.” Clemens said the fortifications on Angel Island “were fast growing into formidable proportions.” That same month the Commanding Officer of Camp Reynolds reported that thirteen guns were mounted and there were 7,400 pounds of powder, and 2,600 rounds of shot and shell on hand.

This was from:http://www.militarymuseum.org/CpReynolds.html and has a great write-up of the military history of Angel Island.

Also you can see a redition of Abraham Lincoln head in the rocks looking up as if he was lying on his back.  A civil war era reference and a nice tie in.

I am going to wait to tell you what I think about this last section as this gets you to the final resting place of the casque

Giant pole
Giant step
To the place
The casque is kept.
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Re: image 1

Postby Trohn » Wed Nov 01, 2006 5:22 pm

http://www.sanfranciscoonline.com/maps.html

A nice resource with as much detail as you'd get
without being there.
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Re: image 1

Postby forest_blight » Wed Nov 01, 2006 10:25 pm

A translation of the inscription on the monument:

Leaving their home and villages, they crossed the ocean
Only to endure confinement in these barracks;
Conquering frontiers and barriers, they pioneered
a new life by the golden gate.


-- Ngoot P. Chin

http://www.americansall.com/PDFs/02-americans-all/13.9.pdf
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Re: image 1

Postby ac3100 » Thu Nov 02, 2006 2:13 am

ImageImage

So I shared with you what I had reasoned up till about the end of June.

I should add that my colleague at work has been involved with this as well.  His name is Al Dahlgren.

We were stuck with this photo and the poem.


And then it hit! 
We got something that we thought was really interesting.  It will probably jump out at you with a little direction.

I am going to see if you can figure it out.

It has  to do with symbolism and perspective..
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Re: image 1

Postby forest_blight » Thu Nov 02, 2006 3:30 am

Andy, some folks on this forum have been working this puzzle for 20+ years. If it was going to jump out at us, it would have by now!

I'm all ears.
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Re: image 1

Postby ac3100 » Thu Nov 02, 2006 3:37 am

You need both pictures to see it.  It should jump out if you don't try too hard.

Clue: Look on the left side of the pictures.
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Re: image 1

Postby Jambone » Thu Nov 02, 2006 1:16 pm

I'll take a shot...

The palm tree in the photo of the monument is in roughly the same position as the pedestal/rose in image 1.  Also, in the photo, you can see the bay behind the monument, and then land on the other side of the bay; in image 1, you can see a body of water behind the lady, and then land (more rocks) behind the water.  From this perspective, Alcatraz is behind the observer.


Trying to work more with this perspective...

The immigration station is on the NNE side of Angel Island (see the map at http://www.the4cs.com/~corin/photos/2004/genodix/2004071011080.html).  Alcatraz, which has the warden's tower, which seems to match nicely with the arched window in the rocks in image1, is SSW of Angel Island.  So if an observer is on Angel Island at the Chinese immigration monument, and they can see the Warden's tower in the background, then they must be facing SSW, which means they have their back to the water.  For things to line up as in image 1, the observer would be standing behind the monument, which would be consistent with the woman's silhouette being the mirror image of the outline of the monument.  But, all of this is contrary to the paragraph above.
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Re: image 1

Postby bclews » Thu Nov 02, 2006 1:46 pm

I'll carry that thought a little further...

The clock says "6:00" which can mean "behind you".  Looking behind her we see land, then water, then land, then water, then land.  The middle "land" has the window/door with bars on it.  Alcatraz?

Here's a stretch -- the mountains just above her shoulders COULD be angel wings.  (Hey, I said it was a stretch.)


(Thanks, Jambone.  Your edit made my post redundant.  :D  )
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Re: image 1

Postby forest_blight » Thu Nov 02, 2006 2:24 pm

Some time ago I mentioned the uncanny resemblance between the background of this image and that of Leonardo's paintings "Madonna of the Rocks" and "Virgin of the Rocks." A nickname for Alcatraz is "The Rock." I wonder if this was an intentional visual pun on the part of JJP...
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Re: image 1

Postby ac3100 » Thu Nov 02, 2006 2:54 pm

Great one Forest.  Have you ever done an overlay with the Madonna of the Rocks to this painting?  Both frames are almost identical. 

To the rest, you got most of it!  But not the most important part!

Not sure about the Alcatraz part or at least putting a lot of weight into it.

Does anyone know about the "Angel" of Angel island? ;)
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Re: image 1

Postby forest_blight » Thu Nov 02, 2006 4:32 pm

An overlay wouldn't match up well. But just visually comparing them, it is hard not to see the resemblance in the backgrounds. Water on the left, weird rocks protruding everywhere and suspended in space, a woman in the middle, jewel at her throat... two paintings called "...of the Rocks" when Alcatraz is called "The Rock" (the barred window may be symbolic of a prison). Anyway, just thought I'd throw that out there.

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