Verse 9

[Trohn]

No.  The palm tree by the marker should not be the place to dig  (it is not a large enough tree to stand out
among other trees)  It should be used as a line of sight from the burial spot.

I have a nagging question (Forest.. you know what's coming)
Where is the horse?  We have the men, we have the wind rose - where is the horse??

I agree with Stercox, that the specifc spot should be as the interpretation of
"Like moonlight, in teardrops
  Over tallgrass
Years pass, rain falls"

I have imagine that the green picket fence would be a more specfic spot confirmer,
but with this location - it could be a toss up.


"like moonlight in tear drops" ---> silver salt

Wow, it only gets tougher the closer you get



The first chapter
Written in water        ENTRANCE
Near men
With wind rose          ONE (OR MANY) OF THE PONCE STATUES

Behind bending branches      MAGNOLIA STREET

And a green picket fence
At the base of a tall tree      WHY USE THE TERM 'BASE'
                                      AS OPPOSED TO FOOT, SOUTH, ETC...?

You can still hear the honking    PASS THE GOOSE POND/
                                            GOOSE PEN/PARKING LOT

Shell, limestone, silver, salt        SALT CELLAR         
Stars move by day                  PLANETARIUM
Sails pass by night                  DISCOVERY GLOBE
Even in darkness                    FOY SPRING

Like moonlight in teardrops
Over the tall grass
Years pass, rain falls.

[adoks53]

the old guy's 2 cents ( added to f.b.) is using a clock theory, north being 12, the amount of digging might be reduced 12-fold, thus tying the clock with the wonderstone and the pic. just an idea.

[boogieman]

And a green picket fence
At the base of a tall tree       WHY USE THE TERM 'BASE'
                                      AS OPPOSED TO FOOT, SOUTH, ETC...?

Funny how we've been talking lately about getting stuck on one idea....Guilty!
There may be something, something that may be at the base of a tree that
the casque could be buried in.  Can't see BP reducing his hands to bloody stumps
digging under a tree (through roots) to hide a casque.  Unless, the tree doesn't have roots.

[Sawdusty]

I worked at the park for about 7 years and met Stercox and she introduced me to this puzzle! I introduced it to one of the owners of the park and finally after years of reminding him, Stercox and company got the chance to dig. Wish we would have found the right spot.
I do have a few things to add. Very little has changed at the "fountain" since the time of B.P.. This year, things are being changed-painted-renovated-some displays moved or removed. For now, all the scripts for the show remain the same, what you hear today is the same as in B.P.s time.
The park used to have many more flowers-it used to house a small botanical garden (where the rock with palm tree is) and things were blooming constantly. Of particular note-beautiful bearded iris around the Seloy marker and dwarf azaleas all around the tiered base of the Indian Statue. There used to be very tall oleanders growing on the path down to the Ponce statue that were described as bending and like walking through a tunnel.
As to the poem, I agree with most of Stercox's ideas and might add (if even for humors sake) that near men with wind rose could have been the men's room and smells associated with it. After all, B.P. was a young college age man who did have a sense of humor.
Things that bother me about the poem are...at the base of a tall tree...is it really a tall tree, something made of wood, or perhaps a tall statue? Is it just a marker you pass by or it it where you dig?
The last lines of the poem still are a puzzle to me...Why OVER the tall grass, how tall are we talking...is the tall grass related to the tall tree? There are stands of Bamboo and Cane in the park and I would guess you could call an Iris plant's leaves a kind of tall grass. I Like the rain (reign) falls idea since this was the area where the Spaniards first encountered the Natives and this was the Chiefdom for the Timucua tribe, and this is where their reign ended.
I am glad to see so many people working together on this one and hope it gets found.
One more thing, the picture is too hard to decipher, I cant tell you how many days I walked around that park and looked for things to match up! I think some of this picture might have mirror images in it. (before you try it, make sure you arent going to scratch your picture with a sharp edge.) By placing a mirror across the jewel from left to right, I see a magnolia cone, if you have been around magnolia trees, you know they are kind of like pine cones with a woody stem. At the bottom of the picture I see the palm tree and the rock as the Bridge of Lions, which is a draw bridge, that is open. The bridge is viewable from the far end of the park. I wish I could put pics up for you but only have a little webtv and it doesnt have that capability.
Stercox, tell me again how much you hate roots and why they call it armchair treasure hunting?!Good luck to all and keep those good ideas going, I think you are all brilliant!

[shecrab]

Okay, I'm going to ask this again, then shut up...

What about the obelisk? From the satellite pic of the park I saw, if I have the obelisk pinpointed as I think is correct, then I saw that the edge of the park against the water sort of looked like the edge of the banner the spaniard is holding. The obelisk is on a square base inside a big circle--like the device on the banner. I hate to keep hammering on about this, but no one has even said whether this might even be a good idea. My idea for this is in a couple posts back.

?

ck

[forest_blight]

shecrab - stercox said, in her long post: "A solid confirmer is the schematic symbol on the flag and even the shape of the flag itself. The symbol is found on an archeological site map found at the park. It symbolizes an obelisk monument out by the coastline." She also mentions this resemblance - and also the resemblance of the flag's outline to the shoreline - in her webshots album "P6 V9 St. Augustine." The obelisk itself (or near it) is a favorite location for the casque for at least one member I know of.

The suggestion that one follow the flag like a path is new, however, and I like that idea. Does the flag match the shoreline closely enough that one could follow it like a path? What's at the end?

[forest_blight]

Welcome Sawdusty! It is nice to have you here. I hope you stay awhile and help us crack this nut.

[Sawdusty]

If you followed the banner along it would most likely be along the shoreline and if that casque was buried along the shoreline, then it is gone! Hurricanes and storms have washed away feet (not inches) of the property in this area and the owners are just this year getting permission to construct a seawall to prevent further erosion of the property. As a matter of fact, almost all the property south from the duck pond is flooded after any strong storm or hurricane. It would be helpful if anyone knew the time of year that BP buried these casques and if there were any storms at that time.

[Trohn]

I want to remind old and new (welcome) that while BP has been
cryptic and puzzling, his solution(s) - the number of solutions we have
is up for interpretation- that

a tree
is a tree
is a tree  (always has been)

Milwaukee    (proud tall fifth)
Fort Moultrie    (lone member of a forest to the south)
St Augustine.      (base of a tall tree)

[johann]

Perhaps "you can STILL hear the honking" assumes that the geese are no longer in sight.

[shecrab]

shecrab - stercox said, in her long post: "A solid confirmer is the schematic symbol on the flag and even the shape of the flag itself. The symbol is found on an archeological site map found at the park. It symbolizes an obelisk monument out by the coastline." She also mentions this resemblance - and also the resemblance of the flag's outline to the shoreline - in her webshots album "P6 V9 St. Augustine." The obelisk itself (or near it) is a favorite location for the casque for at least one member I know of.

The suggestion that one follow the flag like a path is new, however, and I like that idea. Does the flag match the shoreline closely enough that one could follow it like a path? What's at the end?

I apologize if my post sounded irritable...I did not read that the banner had been a confirmer.

Anyway, I wasn't necessarily thinking that the shoreline might be a place to bury the casque, only that it might be used as a sight-line for the casque by pinpointing it better--or by maybe following it it would lead somewhere else? And--the other thing is that the banner's FLAGPOLE might point to the location---in relation to the shoreline, (banner) and the obelisk (device on banner.)

The base of the 'tall' tree might indeed mean the flagpole--oir that might be where the tree IS. If you look at the image, the jewel is sort of at the "base" where the flagpole sits--it's on the head, which is the 'base' where the horse and spaniard are.
I think that the artist put the jewel in the picture approximately where it might be found.  :)

Thanks for the clarifications on my question too.

ck

[forest_blight]

johann - I think that was stercox' assumption all along, and the reason for digging in that corner, which was just out of sight (but not out of hearing) of the geese. A more liberal reading indicates any place within earshot of the goose pen, whether they were still in sight or not. But I agree that it's more likely that one could not see the geese from the burial site. Besides the planetarium, what are some other things that would obscure the geese from view but not from hearing?

[Trohn]

Perhaps "you can STILL hear the honking" assumes that the geese are no longer in sight.

Can the verse be used as a guided walk through the park (like in Houston)
and make one pass the goose pen to get to the final location??

I tried this and didn't come up with anything really good.

[Trohn]

How long has the duck/goose pond been there and is it between
the spring/discovery globe/and the Chief??

[Sawdusty]

Thanks for the welcome here and I hope to hang around long enough to see this solved! I dont live far away from the park so can go and check theories if needed, can't do any digging since I have to get around with a cane and can't operate a shovel and cane at the same time. Will have to wait for Stercox and the digging team to come back for that. Hope to see some of you on her next trip!